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Why Seeking A Meaningful Career Is Bad Advice

Today, there are no flowery introductions, no background information to give and no anecdotes to tell (I’ll even spare you the details of the cute guy I met while white water rafting here the other day in Costa Rica)–today, it’s straight to the point:

You don’t have a career.  What you’ve got is a glorified version of a job.

The term “career” is nothing more than a fancy linguistic trick designed to make you believe that what you’re doing is more meaningful than just some job, but in essence, they are the same:   Whether you develop cutting edge proposals for high-value clients (ohhh, ahhh!) or you spend your days removing dirty plates from tables, you are, in both cases, performing a task in exchange for money.

But career just sounds so much better, doesn’t it?  It implies that you’ve selected this path and therefore are engaged, dedicated and glad to be doing what you’re doing.  More importantly, using the term “career” communicates your social status to others; it indirectly says, “I have the luxury of choosing the way I’m going to spend 8-10 hours each day.  I even get a whole hour for lunch….suckaaas!”

Surely, the term career can mean that you’ve spent time training for Job Title X, and hence you are highly skilled.  An expert.   A specialist.  A professional.   But it becomes less attractive when, in spending so much time training for our “career”–otherwise known as a job we do because we like it (or thought we would) more than others–we use it to form our identities of who we are as people.

Ask someone about themselves, and they’ll default to a job-title description first, usually followed by where they’re from and what they’re doing, but not a lot on who they actually ARE. You are what you do” is a bunch of crap–I do not believe that we are a product of the tasks we perform, but rather in the experiences we’ve had. Therefore, perhaps instead of “you are what you do,” maybe it should read “you are what you’ve learned.”

But wait, isn’t the advice du jour “Do What You Love?”

By attaching our identities to the jobs we perform, in an effort to seek meaning for ourselves, we erroneously seek meaning in our jobs. At first glance, this seems like a noble & worthwhile goal; however, it’s reached a point in which it now backfires on us.  Now, the only way we know how to find meaning is through the job functions we perform. We define ourselves by it, use it as a source of pride, sacrifice for it and devote our lives to it; as such, we become one in the same.

The problem with that is that is its potential to make us painstakingly narrow human beings. There are so many things that you are, and so many worthwhile things to explore and derive meaning from than some arbitrary task you perform.  A favorite quote of mine by United States author, Henry Miller:

“Develop interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music – the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people.”

What inspired this post has been the last month I’ve been here in Central America.  Where I’m based out of, on the Central Pacific coast of Costa Rica, there is no such thing as a career.  People work typically from 6am to 2pm, or from 2pm to 10pm in hotels, restaurants and any other number of tourist industries, and none of the jobs are particularly glamourous.  However, they’re more than grateful to have one at all, and you never hear anyone complaining about having to go to work.

That said, they also don’t associate their self-worth with what they do for money, and tend to be less bitter because of it; to them, a job is simply what you do to survive, and there’s no other meaning in it than that. Instead, they find meaning outside of their work, in places like their families, friendships and social connections. Meet a person here and ask them about themselves, and they will never respond first with, “Oh, I’m a receptionist at X hotel,” but rather “I’m so and so’s cousin, I live over in X neighborhood.  As a matter of fact, we’re having a birthday party for my grandmother tonight–want to come?” As an interesting side note, if I meet someone and ask what they do in Spanish, “Que haces?” they will tell me what they’ve got on their agenda for the day, NOT what they do for a living.  In order to find out where they work, I’ve got literally got to ask what they do for work, “En que trabajas?”  However, if I ask the same question, “What do you do?” in English, you know that I am asking about what you do for a living.  Yet another cruel linguistic trick that is highly reflective of our values.

I’ve observed a drastic shift in priorities, from those of the United States, and, frankly, despite the fact that many of the local workers here earn no more than $2/hour, I find myself envying them.  They are free from judgments about who they are based on what they do for a living, and as such, are free from the pressure that we knowingly or unknowingly put on ourselves.  They happily put in their 8 hours, and thereafter work is over–they are free to spend the remainder of their day engaging in activities they love with the people they love.  No one brings their work home with them; no one is missing out on their daughter’s childhood in a vain attempt to work overtime; no one is stressed, hurried and frantically rushing through life. They are happy to just be, and are fully aware of how to embrace pleasure, and use that to find meaning.

The conclusion?

I’d rather have a job over a career any day…suckaaas.

P.S.  If you didn’t get a chance to see my latest guest post over at Josh Hanagarne’s site, The World’s Strongest Librarian, check it out–it’s completely off the wall and on a topic that I don’t usually discuss here:  Sex!


If you liked that jazz. . .check out some of these:

  • http://thenewcareersblog.com career ideas

    yes, do what you love to do

  • http://www.newblogculture.com/ Gideon Klein

    Thanks for the inspirational post. I spent 10 yrs pursuing a career and money. Then I managed to spend the last 10 yrs w/out working a regular job. I am now at a crossroads as to whether to pursue financial security by re-entering the conventional workforce, or continuing on an unconventional journey into the unknown. I appreciate your passion and irreverence. There is so much more to life than one's career. Being bound by materialism is a trap to keep people working in jobs they hate to pay for things they don't need. I am determined to view each day as an adventure, and not just live for weekends and vacations.

  • http://twitter.com/Mneiae Caroline L

    I feel like it's ok to mix your life goals and work. This is after getting tested by the Johnson O'Connor Foundation.

    While you're probably against taking what test tell you to do literally, the results are a little different; they only tell you what you have a natural aptitude for and leave the rest up to you. I'm great at planning things long-term (and using big words?) and if I don't feel like my daily tasks are accomplishing anything that has to do with my goal in life, I will perpetually feel unfulfilled. And the director told me to find something I cared about deeply and incorporate steps towards it in my life.

    This basically went along with what you told me about seeking out my life goals. At this juncture, I'm going to look into water filtration, purification, and distribution. Of course my mother told me immediately, “Too bad you don't want to be an engineer! That could help!”

    To which I responded, “Mom, engineering requires spatial visualization, which I scored really low on and I'd be completely miserable as an engineer because thinking about things in 2-D in 3-D all the time would be a nightmare and give me a headache. I would perpetually go around in life as drained as I was right after they tested me in that, and you'd hear complaints much like the ones you heard after I had to do the Wiggly Block.” (That is not a fun dance; that is a puzzle nightmare.)

    And Daddy, who is an electrical engineer, tells me that instead of doing water filtration/purification/distribution [which they admit they knew about since forever because of me building wells in Vietnam when I was small...(er)], I should take the other suggestion about being a consultant because I can make $150/300 an hour just telling other people how to make things more efficient.

    And I nodded while I covertly thought of different majors that I could switch to when I get back to school.

    When you hit the States, I would suggest that you take a look at the Foundation and see if you want to be tested. They'll tell you a lot of things that you already know, like: “Wow, you generate a lot of ideas quickly and are able to think of new solutions and new things to do” and “If you stifle your natural innate desire to create, to write, to express yourself, you will become very frustrated by life in general and career-hop aimlessly, because financial gains can only motivate you so far before you suffocate” and “You should be a tutor and an editor, which you listed here on your entrance forms….oh.”

    And then other stuff that you haven't reallly thought about like, “You have a lot of artistic ability, but no dexterity, so you should take some art history or photography classes and see how they go.”

    And heartbreaking things like, “The reason why you took 10 years of piano plus 2 years of violin and yet cannot sightread is that you don't have innate aptitude for doing musical stuff. You've gotten where you are through hard work, though, so that should be a comfort, right? It's ok to keep it as a hobby, though!”

  • Sandy in Taipei

    Great post! Came to the same conclusion myself after living here in Taipei for more than two years now.

    The work ethic here is intense. To be working overtime is a star on your lapel. To be working on weekends, a gold star. Even the government has its hand in this madness. Workers–of all collars, blue and white–have to “make up” days off by working Saturdays. It's gotten to the point where some workers are known to work as little as possible during normal hours so the boss can see them at odd hours finishing work they “didn't have time for” during the day. Ugh. The Messed-up-ness factor is high.

    While I stroll out of the office as soon as the clock strikes 6 PM (yes, it's not 9-5, it's 9-6 here…. <insert furrowed brow>), most of my coworkers are still clacking away until god-knows-when. Keeping my 9-6 hours, if you can believe it, is almost a form of protest.

    Anyway, so I totally get you when you say “a job is what you do to survive, and there is no other meaning in it than that.” Hollah, girl. Hollah.

  • http://twitter.com/Mneiae Caroline L

    This post is thought-provoking. Have you checked out Jacob at EarlyRetirementExtreme? He talks about a job just being a source of income as well.

    Your post at World's Strongest Librarian made me fall in love with your writing. I could never express what you did in precisely the same way, but it's something that I've wanted to. Could you be a little less awesome? You blow my mind.

    If you want intellectual, start dating single professors :) Scientists are a tad bit harder to find/meet in bars/ever see. They're elusive.

    • TMFproject

      Seriously, that comment made my night.  THIS IS WHY I WRITE!  For the people who get it.  Thank you so much for the kind words. 

      Truer words have never been spoken–calling all young, single professors of the world (preferably with dimples)!

  • http://lifeisbutastage.wordpress.com/ robert

    I still don't find any fault in a career, but I think I understand what you are getting at.

    It is definitely an annoying mindstate we have over here in the states. We struggle with our identity.In a way it's expected. How do you actually go about describing your identity? I do it in terms of character. I am my character. If someone were to ask me about myself,I'd quickly describe myself as “a beautiful mess.” That's me, if I am my character. I've never thought about describing myself in relation to other people i.e. I am Jennifer's son. They may not know Jennifer. Perhaps it's just the whole atmosphere of living in the states. It's so fast-paced and business-minded. I know I'm not my career, but we have a class system over here in the states. People want to immediately know if you're worth talking to. They think that your profession says a lot about you.But we're never our profession. Our profession is an empty void, until we bring something to it. It's just like when you ask someone how they're doing over here in the US of A. Nearly everyone says the same thing, ” I'm fine. How are you?” But if you ask someone over in another country-of course, not everyone- you'll get a, “oh man, I'm tired. last night….” You get a connection on a much deeper level.

    I think the difference is in how we look at the two.

    Jobs-at least to me- are a stepping stone. Something I'd rather not be doing. Something to earn me income to support me in whatever endeavors I choose to embark upon. Most likely to help support me while I'm building my skills in the area of my passion.
    Sometimes I like jobs, sometimes I don't. The one thing about jobs, I don't feel like I have a lot of freedom. Yeah, I had the choice to choose the job, but once I'm there I feel pretty much dead.

    Careers on the other hand, are a consciously chosen path-at least I think they should be. It's something that is going to pay the bills over the long-haul and so I'd like it to be something that I would like to do.

    They're both mediums to me. Mediums for self-expression. They don't define me, I bring my essence to them. I'm going with a steve pavlina on this one: the career is the medium, we bring our message to it. Most people never decide what their message is, so they go with a career choice that they think has a great message i.e. I want to be a nurse because they are helpful and caring or I want to be a ceo because they are powerful. The thing is, careers are more fulfilling-again, I think they should be.

    But it's all how you see them and what they mean to you. To me, I feel like a job will work the hell out of me. When I go looking for a job, I feel like my options are limited, in terms of the medium, growth and expression. Careers on the other hand, I feel like I have a lot of control over. It's something that I've decided would be a great vehicle for me to express myself; consequently, I feel more alive at my career. I'm not just giving my hours away, I'm putting work in to see my message manifest.

    You could argue that you can express yourself under a job too, but it's all in perspective and how we define the two terms.

  • http://lifeisbutastage.wordpress.com/ robert

    I still don't find any fault in a career, but I think I understand what you are getting at.

    It is definitely an annoying mindstate we have over here in the states. We struggle with our identity.In a way it's expected. How do you actually go about describing your identity? I do it in terms of character. I am my character. If someone were to ask me about myself,I'd quickly describe myself as “a beautiful mess.” That's me, if I am my character. I've never thought about describing myself in relation to other people i.e. I am Jennifer's son. They may not know Jennifer. Perhaps it's just the whole atmosphere of living in the states. It's so fast-paced and business-minded. I know I'm not my career, but we have a class system over here in the states. People want to immediately know if you're worth talking to. They think that your profession says a lot about you.But we're never our profession. Our profession is an empty void, until we bring something to it. It's just like when you ask someone how they're doing over here in the US of A. Nearly everyone says the same thing, ” I'm fine. How are you?” But if you ask someone over in another country-of course, not everyone- you'll get a, “oh man, I'm tired. last night….” You get a connection on a much deeper level.

    I think the difference is in how we look at the two.

    Jobs-at least to me- are a stepping stone. Something I'd rather not be doing. Something to earn me income to support me in whatever endeavors I choose to embark upon. Most likely to help support me while I'm building my skills in the area of my passion.
    Sometimes I like jobs, sometimes I don't. The one thing about jobs, I don't feel like I have a lot of freedom. Yeah, I had the choice to choose the job, but once I'm there I feel pretty much dead.

    Careers on the other hand, are a consciously chosen path-at least I think they should be. It's something that is going to pay the bills over the long-haul and so I'd like it to be something that I would like to do.

    They're both mediums to me. Mediums for self-expression. They don't define me, I bring my essence to them. I'm going with a steve pavlina on this one: the career is the medium, we bring our message to it. Most people never decide what their message is, so they go with a career choice that they think has a great message i.e. I want to be a nurse because they are helpful and caring or I want to be a ceo because they are powerful. The thing is, careers are more fulfilling-again, I think they should be.

    But it's all how you see them and what they mean to you. To me, I feel like a job will work the hell out of me. When I go looking for a job, I feel like my options are limited, in terms of the medium, growth and expression. Careers on the other hand, I feel like I have a lot of control over. It's something that I've decided would be a great vehicle for me to express myself; consequently, I feel more alive at my career. I'm not just giving my hours away, I'm putting work in to see my message manifest.

    You could argue that you can express yourself under a job too, but it's all in perspective and how we define the two terms.

  • asgoodandbetter

    Hey Ashley!

    I'm new here; just wanted to say, I really liked this post. When I lived in NYC about 8 years ago, the whole “what do you do?” thing got really outta hand for me – you're always at a party somewhere meeting new people and you get asked this question all night. So when I met new people, I'd either bluntly say, “Sarah, huh? What's your deal, Sarah?” – which always got some type of interesting reply – or I'd ask a two-part question: A) “What do you do?” (pause for brief, pre-scripted answer, then…) B) “Hm. So what do you *want* to be doing?” Nine times out of ten their answer to this latter question was different, and it always led to a way more interesting conversation…

  • http://Rejuvination.me/ Leslie Juvin

    Andrew MacPherson said it better and simpler: “Don't let your work define you”, but rather you define your work. I understand and value your point, Ms. Ambirge; it's time we working folks redefined the meaning of life's work.

    • TMFproject

      That Andrew MacPherson!  I know, he's brilliant, isn't he?  (He has his own site at http://www.rulesoptional.com.) I highly recommend checking it out.  Thank you for stopping by and taking the time to comment!  Appreciate it.

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  • http://wwwtravelph.blogspot.com/ Randall

    Has anyone told you lately that your a gifted writer?  If not, it's about time someone did!  That post was an accurate description of what we in the west do to ourselves everyday!  We do mundane things all day long in an effort to keep up with everyone else and at the same time life is speeding by at the sound of Stupid!  If you have never been to a “third world” country you may not be able to relate to what she is talking about in this post. 
    I just know that people in the developing world as we call them have a knack for enjoying the hell out of thier life while we exsist in our workaholic society!  As one trapped in the corporate world right now I am hell bent on getting out of the status quo and living life in a much healthier way.  Thanks

    • TMFproject

      Hey, Randall – I appreciate the kudos.  Can someone tell that to my English 101 college professor, who told me that my writing lacked focus and was too flowery?  :) (Bitter much? HA.) I'm glad you left the comment you did – there is definitely something to be said about the role work plays in the lives of those in the Western world versus the role it plays in the lives of people in other places.  It's so refreshing for me when I see others genuinely enjoying their lives, irrelevant of what they do for money, and having other values beyond the number on their paycheck.  Thanks for commenting on this.

  • driftingfocus

    I agree with you, though I think that some of the creative fields are something of an exception.  For instance, I find that as a photographer, my work constantly brings me into new places, introduces me to new people, and helps me to find new interests.  For me, photography is not only a job, it is something of a way of life, if that makes sense.  It's a lens.

    • TMFproject

      THAT is completely different – that's wonderful that you've been able to conflate your interests with something that can simultaneously provide you with an income.  The ideal!  In that sense, you've essentially built your life around something you enjoy, rather than something you enjoy being built around your life.  In your instance, you probably wouldn't mind being labeled a photographer on your tombstone, because it implicitly represents other characteristics about you; however, if you were a customer service rep, would you want that on your tombstone?  Probably not.  You wouldn't want to be defined by it there, and you shouldn't let yourself be defined by it now.  Know what I mean?  :)

      P.S.  Soon I'll be hunting you down for advice on a decent, cost-effective camera to purchase!  :)

  • http://experimentsinpassiveincome.com/ Moon Hussain

    Hi,

    My first time here.  Really powerful post. “I do not believe that we are a product of the tasks we perform, but rather in the experiences we’ve had.”  I love the way you put that.  I am realizing that moreso now than I did a couple of years ago.

    If you have time, please drop by my site.  I'll be checking out your older posts.  Great writing!

    • TMFproject

      Thanks, Moon!  By the way, I, too, loved the feel of San Diego.  :)

  • Meg

    What about aspiring to some sort of VOCATION, rather than a job?

    • driftingfocus

      Agreed here.  There's definitely a difference.

    • TMFproject

      I like that.  It sort of implies transforming a hobby into a job.  And if it's a hobby, then it is, by default, something you enjoy.  All for that.

  • http://www.livecollarfree.com James NomadRip

    I fear I am still more stuck in that trap of giving an answer based on what I do to make money when people ask what I do. I know what they mean when they're asking. Many times I just don't feel like making small talk like that. But when people really care to get into it or I feel like it, my answer is, “whatever I feel like, most of the time.” Then we go from there.

    Then again, I've done jobs that are normally romanticized quite a bit. It quickly grew tiring answering the same questions and trying to convince people it isn't like it is in the movies. I usually ended up just saying I worked for the post office to move the conversation along to something more interesting.

    • Brian W.

      James, I know what you mean about answering the same questions.  I had an unusual/romanticized job for a while and eventually a lot of my small talk conversations felt downright scripted. 

      I have to admit, even when I was annoyed with the same questions yet again, I did get liiiittle bit of an ego trip every time someone let out a “That's so cool!” Now my job is not only rather generic but tough to explain.  Even though I like this job more than the previous flashy one, I sort of miss having something nifty to say.  On the surface, I'm more than happy to say, “What these randoms think is not important to me,” but I guess I'm not entirely able to stick to that on a deeper level.  Some part of me likes people thinking I'm independent, non-conformist, daring … and likes the attention, too.

      I've lately just been emphasizing why I like my job rather than what tasks I perform.  (I work with people I like, I keep my overactive brain busy, people respect me, etc.) Seems like a good approach so far.  Maybe you could try some variant of that?  Though I guess with those cool jobs, it will always be tough to steer away from the is-it-like-the-movies stuff.

      • TMFproject

        What, like professional poker player?

    • TMFproject

      Ha, I'm going to have to start lying all of the time, just for fun and to see the different reactions people give.  Zookeeper.  Former gymnast.  Assembly line supervisor.  Gift wrap designer.  Prison guard.  Welder.  Professional bungee jumper.  I'm sure I could come up with some real doozies, if I were to think about it.  *Evil laugh*

      • miamiheather

        Hey Ashley,

        Although I'm actually getting some things accomplished at work today, I'm reading all your old posts in between! I had to laugh at your idea to tell people you were a prison guard. Although my “career” is PR and Marketing, I was once laid off and couldn't find a new “career” in the PR field, so I went through my local police academy and became a corrections officer (preferred term vs. prison guard). Although I only did this “job” for about 2 years, it's one of the first things that people want to discuss when I mention it. Funny how no one wants to talk about the latest marketing techniques or how to write a better media release…BTW, do you think a stripper, prostitue, counterfeiter or any other person who makes his or her money in a “non-traditional” way (no pun intended with the counterfieter reference) considers what they do a “career” or a “job?” Why do we always have to “be” what we “do?”

  • http://www.thelifething.com/ Jonny | thelifething,com

    Down with careers, down with careers, down with musketeers…I mean, careers.

  • Brian W.

    My Pimsleur CDs from back in the day taught me “¿A que te dedicas?”  It's definitely more likely to elicit a response about someone's job than “¿Que haces?” (to which I feel like the appropriate response is “Drinking beers, what does it look like I'm doing?”)

    Interesting turn of literal translation, though – “To what do you dedicate yourself?”  Kind of a more interesting question than “What do you do for a living?”

    • TMFproject

      That's interesting!  I've actually never, ever heard that phrase used in Spanish, but as you know, Spanish changes from country to country, and I'm sure this is used in some parts of the world.  I like it!  (Although still despise the idea of having to discuss job responsibilities in conjunction with how I dedicate myself.  Why does one naturally imply the other?!)

  • christinelivingston

    This is a great post, Ash. I love the way you challenge the whole myth of the career thing, and I agree that work can play far too big a role in people's lives; that it can become how they define themselves and they can get into the whole headfuck of needing to have the perfect career, as defined by other people's criteria.

    But I would disagree with you when you say that we erroneously seek meaning in our work. I think that for many, certainly for me, putting who I am and what I do to service in the world is one way I seek, and indeed find, meaning in life. The trouble comes when we seek meaning in work to the exclusion of all other things. I think that there's meaning to be had in friendships, family, relationships, other interests and indeed in just our own self-discovery. I also think that at times these things will naturally be more or less important and play bigger or smaller roles to us than work. I think the whole thing is dynamic.

    I also think work is a life-long learning journey. And that, if we stop needing to have perfect “careers” we can lighten up and have more fun whatever it is we've chosen to do in that particular moment.

    Thanks again, and keep on kicking ass!

    • TMFproject

      Agree with you wholeheartedly!  It's the unnecessary illusion that we must have the perfect career–and the subsequent levels of self-esteem and purpose that we garner based on that one factor–where I think we could all use a little more balance.  In terms of erroneously seeking meaning in our work, you said exactly what I meant by that – “the trouble comes when we seek meaning in work to the exclusion of all other things.”  Thanks, Christine, for helping me to formulate a clearer message – the one I meant to give!

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  • stevenponec

    I liked Andrew MacPherson's view of this.  While I do think that your point of view on this is really interesting Ashley, I may be an example of someone who likes to identify with what they do.  I know what you are saying is don't identify with something that you hate.  I just identify myself as a photographer.  Instead of overanalyzing things in my life, I put that towards a positive action and overanalyze the stuff in this world to make macro photography.

    But basically what I'm saying is that the idea of wage slavery isn't appealing to everyone.
    Wow, I finished that comment, and now I don't even know what I said :) haha ramblings I guess

    • TMFproject

      I think you may have misunderstood my purpose in writing this.  It wasn't to advocate for “wage slavery,” it was simply to frame my point of reference for noticing that too often in the states, we define ourselves by what we do to earn money, when, in reality, there isn't always a connection, and there doesn't have to be.  You, on the other hand, are one of the people who has gone out of their way to ensure that what they do to earn money is, in fact, in line with your desires and, as such, a part of the way you define yourself, and that's great.  But…once you're dead, if someone were to ask who Steven Ponec was, would you just say, “Oh, he was a photographer,” and let that be it?  Want to emphasize the fact here that we've got way more going on than whatever it is we do for a living, and we should remember to factor that in when making self-assessments – not strictly by what the larger society would define you as being successful.

      • stevenponec

        “Want to emphasize the fact here that we've got way more going on than whatever it is we do for a living, and we should remember to factor that in when making self-assessments” That really cleared it up for me. 

        I think I understand what you are saying now :) I'm more than just what I do, even if in my case, what I do is important to my values and what I see in the world.

  • Tyler

    Seeking meaning in a job is entirely different from seeking meaning ONLY in a job: the first implies finding or creating personal value in some aspect of it (or creating a job that has personal meaning), while the second implies defining the meaning of one's life only by the job.

    I'm a bit unclear: are you saying we should attempt to do neither?

    • TMFproject

      No, that's an excellent point.  If you seek meaning in your job and are able to attain it, freaking kudos man.  But would you argue that that's what the majority of people actually do? 

      I'm not attempting to say you should do anything, per say; I'm simply pointing out that we often DO define the meaning of our lives, and our self-worth, by what we do for a living (your second implication), and simply just reminding that we've got a whole host of other things that make us the person we are…not just how to earn a buck.  Careers aren't everything.  Jobs aren't everything.  Sometimes it might be helpful to think in broader terms, that's all.

  • http://www.solitarypanda.com floreta

    oh i am envious of that mentality too. i hate how we are so defined by our jobs in the US and “what do you do?” means an elevator speech of my career as if that's the measure of my worth. YET, i know i'm still trapped in that mentality because i don't exactly feel someone who works in retail all their lives is a “winner”. i'd rather be poor and happy than rich and miserable but i respect someone who's poor and has ideas/is remarkable w/ their life more than someone who works retail and is “going nowhere”.

    • TMFproject

      Excellent point – we are products of the culture we grew up in.  Although, I'd venture to say it could be universal that respect would be derived from having good ideas (except, perhaps, in countries where women's ideas are not valued nor desired.) Perhaps what we respect is actually motivated people, because they remind us that we, too, can do kick ass things.  Great comment!

      • driftingfocus

        “we are products of the culture we grew up in”

        I would argue that we're also products of our families, as well.  My parents both have always pursued work they found to be meaningful and important to them, and therefore I have never really been able to concieve of how people can do work they don't care about.  Most people, however, are raised in “career” families and thus the wage-slave concept is their only frame of reference.

  • http://rulesoptional.com Andrew MacPherson

    To me… Career implies a progression; Job implies acceptance/contentment. I used to get all worked up about people judging me by the job I had. I saw it in their faces and felt it in my chest and I thought it was bullshit. Then I realized that if I hated it, the people judging me were basically just agreeing with me. It's hard to blame people for that.

    I don't like the Central American relationship with / view toward jobs much (if any) more than the North American version. The North American perspective feels like begrudged defeat whereas the Central American version feels more like contented defeat. The difference in flavors of defeat probably has more to do with the psychological mess caused by the failed “American Dream” and the psychological mess caused by a history of Central America being repeatedly conquered. North Americans didn't get what they were promised and Central Americans were just never promised anything. The point is… Neither is particularly enlightened.

    In both cases, people (with the kinds of jobs of which you speak) don't want to talk about their jobs. Wage slavery is wage slavery. Being happy to put in you 8 hours is still death on an installment plan.

    • TMFproject

      1.  Career implies progression toward what?  You just said it yourself: “Wage slavery is wage slavery.”  So what is the end goal of a career that you're defending?  Manufactured, socially constructed status ranks, or as much money as one can possibly make before tapping out at the ripe old age of 65?

      2.  “The Central American version feels more like contented defeat.”  You're making this statement through your North American cultural lens, in which you're applying your definition of defeat, as defined by your cultural values, to the lives of people who don't live and play according to your rules, nor would define “defeat” in the same manner.  That's exactly the point I was making – they DON'T seem the least bit discouraged or unhappy performing these jobs, and they certainly would be put off if you were to tell them that the 8 hours they busted selling empanadas on the beach or washing dishes in a hot kitchen, in an effort to live an honest life and provide for their families, was done in vain and they've been “defeated.”  In fact, I think they probably feel pretty damn good about it.

      3.  “People with the kind of jobs of which you speak don't want to talk about their jobs because they're not worth talking about.”  From whose point of view?  That sounds ethnocentric if I've ever heard it, and I wouldn't expect that from you. 

      4.  “Being happy to put in your 8 hours is still death on an installment plan.”  Yes, nor was I advocating that anyone should go out and get a job, instead of a career.  I was simply making the point that careers often transform themselves into the one overwhelming defining factor that we use to base our self-worth on, and that's just crap.  With jobs, on the other hand, the same phenomenon doesn't seem to occur.  I'm not making any conclusions that one is preferred over the other; simply just saying that we should avoid, as you would say, “the conflation” between “career” and “us.” 

      5.  Mad love for you.  Always love a good debate, you know that.

      • http://rulesoptional.com Andrew MacPherson

        1. Career – a field for or pursuit of consecutive progressive achievement especially in public, professional, or business life. ~ Mirriam-Webster. A career is a strategy in which successive jobs and achievements are leveraged into (ostensibly) better jobs and achievements. Wage slavery is wage slavery; I advocate neither a career nor a job. However, If forced to choose between a job and a career, you said you'd choose job; I'd choose career. I'd advocate “consecutive progressive achievement” over the stagnation implied by choosing a job any day. If you're going to do something, do the hell out of it. Career implies doing the hell out of it. Job does not.

        2. “they certainly would be put off if you were to tell them that the 8 hours they busted their ass… was done in vain and they've been “defeated.” In fact, I think they probably feel pretty damn good about it.

        I suspect you're right… Just as some of your readers have been put-off by some of your previous statements saying basically the same thing about employees (looking up the exact quote seems too much like a career right now. Oooh no he di'nt!). I didn't think their argument was valid then and I don't agree with yours now. The only thing that's changed is the culture in question. You latched on to the difference I mentioned, but the only reason I brought it up was to equate the emptiness of wage slavery for North Americans and Central Americans… not to distinguish them. I made no judgement as to which was better.

        3. Again, I'm equating, not distinguishing. In free societies, people talk about things they're inspired to talk about. If people don't talk about their jobs, the most likely explanation is that they aren't inspired by them. Your claim of ethnocentrism might be apropos if there's significant cultural pressure to not talk about jobs. For the year I lived in Central America, I found that people didn't tend to volunteer to talk about work (for the very reasons I suggest), but were open about their lack of enthusiasm for them when asked. Conversely, they were very vocal about their excitement when they got promoted or got a new job.

        4. “I was simply making the point that careers often transform themselves into the one overwhelming defining factor that we use to base our self-worth on, and that's just crap. With jobs, on the other hand, the same phenomenon doesn't seem to occur.

        Exactly. :) This is your stated premise and I totally disagree with it. I can't get behind the blanket assumption that careers suffer this fatal flaw, but jobs are somehow exempt. Floreta implicitly agrees with the terminology problem: “…we are so defined by our jobs in the US.” Tyler as well: “Seeking meaning in a job is entirely different from seeking meaning ONLY in a job” Jen also mentions jobs in relation to our definitions of ourselves. Evan and Nate use career. Ben wisely shows us that there's no perfect term and eloquently uses the phrasing I think is most accurate: “…the 9-5 or the 6-2 or whatever.”

        Here's what I think your premise actually is: Don't let your work define you. That's what everyone here agrees on. It even still fits with the title because none of us really wants a career. We're basically just debating the definition of 'job' and 'career' because we're both language nerds.

        5. Mwah. Love you too. ;)

        • http://findyourselflost.com kristin norris

          I just wrote the longest, awesomest reply to your discussion and disqus deleted it. I feel defeated.

  • http://www.thewaythatyouwander.com/ Nate

    What a great post. I think careers are dangerous things, and I was planning on writing about post about the subject some time in the future. What bothers me the most is that people ARE their work. It's the “What do you do?” mentality. Why would anyone disrespect them self in such a way? People are complex, they have hopes, fears, hobbies and all sorts of exciting things going on. That is what should be celebrated and discussed when they meet a new person. I love that you brought this concept up.

    • TMFproject

      Shit – THAT should have been the title for this post: Careers are dangerous things.  Ha.  It's strange, because people often do have many other aspects of their lives to discuss, but since talking about one's job functions seems to be the social law, it's what people discuss.  I've found myself in new convos with new people who automatically prompt ME to talk about what I do for a living, and my immediate reaction is to deflect the question–not because I don't want to answer it, but because I don't want it to have to be the first thing we talk about, that I get judged on.  I think it's rather irrelevant to who I am as a person – even if I love the stuff i do.  It's still just stuff I DO – not WHY I do it or WHO I am because of it.

      • TMFproject

        You know, now that I think of it….maybe people just don't give a damn WHY you do the things or do or WHO you really are.

  • http://www.6aliens.com Ben Lumley

    I agree with Jen. This is a really nice thought-provoking piece.

    Too many of us stress over the 9-5 or the 6-2 or whatever. It's not worth it, you miss out on too much if you do that. I have a friend who works 7-4pm and then comes on and works 8-2am on stuff for work, then rinses and repeats. Craziness!

    To be fair – I'm not much better. When I'm not working I'm writing.

    First time reader – First commenter :)

    • TMFproject

      Hey, Ben!  Always great to meet the acquaintance of a fellow writer.  There's definitely something to be said about busting your ass and working hard, but there's more to be said about living your life–being exhilarated, inspired & excited about stuff that brings you pleasure, not just a bonus at the end of the year.  Thanks for commenting – will have to check out your stuff!

      • http://www.6aliens.com Ben Lumley

        Yeah definately. Too many people miss pug on the journey along the way

  • http://www.farbeyondthestars.com/ Everett Bogue

    Wow, great post! I wrote something similar over at Far Beyond The Stars this morning and I think I used the word career far too many times, now that I think about it.

    There is a lot of pressure to pursue a career, but I really believe that this mentality is changing here in the United States. There comes a time when you can't deny any longer that you'd rather be working on something that you believe in, than wasting 60 hours of your life making someone else's company richer.

    There are many brave souls embarking on this path, and for that I applaud them, and you Ash.

    If you're career ends up being what you want to do, so be it, but why pursue a career in something that kills your soul?

    Thanks for the great writing.

    • TMFproject

      Thanks, Everett – I tend to think that jobs or careers might be fine, if you're happy doing what you're doing, but I can't help but notice that the whole concept of “having a career” is largely a fabricated social construct that has become the definition of success–that's what I'm not down with.  And furthermore, if anything is killing your soul, as you put it–I don't care if it's a job, a spouse, or whatever–you need to remove it from your life.  Immediately.  I'll be heading over to your site to check it out!  Always great stuff from you.

  • http://www.reachourdreams.com/ Jen

    I really liked this post Ash. You hit on something profound here. Up till recently I had this thing about wanting to 'be' something i.e. a coach, or something that I had worked towards but luckily I had an epiphany last year and realised what a screwed up way of looking at things that is!!! … however noble or worthwhile your chosen job is, as you say it is still a job and it does not define us. Costa Rica sounds great (hoping to go there next xmas) … it just makes you wonder how we have got it so wrong!

    • TMFproject

      Yes – sometimes I've found myself feeling lost if I don't have a particular way to categorize myself, but then I step back and think, “Why do I have to?”

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