lallal

Your Language Is Holding You Hostage (And Why I’ll Be Flying Obama’s Private Jet As A Result)

Schizophrenic Intro

Here’s a disturbing thought:  What if I were to make the bold claim  (mebold claim?)  that there’s no such thing as independent thinking. You’re over there already, shaking your finger back and forth at me and saying, “Nuh uh, girlfriend.  I don’t know about you, but I have got a mind of my own!” Snap right, snap left, SNAP RIGHT.

To which I place a hand on one hip and say, “Oh yeah, suga’?  That’s because you don’t know about the Hopi.”

And then you look at me with a semi-puzzled, semi-skeptical look on your face that says, “What the hell are you talking about, Ash?”

To which I raise a mischievous eyebrow and tell you that you’ll have to wait until the end of the post to find out.  Because right now, we’ve got some business to talk about.   And that business looks a little something like Sapir + Whorf + Hypothesis + Understanding Of What That Is & How It Affects You = YOU, Exponentially More Awesome.  And by that, I mean sassy little know-it-all who’s busting some moves in the world.

Shall we, my dear?

A Badass Hypothesis

So Sapir.  And Whorf.  They were two dudes.  Really intelligent dudes who studied linguistics.  Just take a look at this gem of a statement that Sapir threw out there one glorious day (pay attention, this is importaaaaantttttttt):

“No two languages are ever sufficiently similar to be considered as representing the same social reality. The worlds in which different societies live are distinct worlds, not merely the same world with different labels attached.”

Deep.   I know.

Basically, the premise is this:   The language we speak affects how we view the world. It also can affect how we think or act, and asserts that all human beings do not think the same way regardless of what language they speak.

And I am just oh-so-in-love with this theory.  To expand, it’s the idea that the linguistic structure that we have available to us (i.e. verb forms, the order of sentences) influences our perceptions and, hence, thoughts.

For example, as humans we tend to put things, situations, ideas, people–you name it–into mental categories.  Yet, these categories don’t exist because they stare every observer in the face; rather, our categories are organized by our minds, and that means by the linguistic systems of our minds.  Therefore, all observers are not led by the same physical evidence to the same picture of the universe.

And that’s just all sorts of wild.

So, back to the Hopi.   That clever bunch has two different words for “water”:  One for drinking water in a container versus a natural body of water.  Brilliant!  To add to the envy, they also are said not to experience time in the same way that we do; to them, it is not linear out of the past, through a present and future (e.g. “Our future is ahead of us.”), but rather is a circular flow that is tied to the ever changing and returning seasons.   Tell me that wouldn’t lower your stress levels on your daily commute!  Oh, I’m 15 minutes late?  No biggie; that’ll just be recycled right on back to my boss next year.

Some of you might know that I’ve got a master’s degree in TESOL, which, in sum, is basically a master’s degree in second language acquisition theory.  I’ve had some really rad times studying the differences between Chinese & English, as I used to work with non-native English speakers, many of which were from China, entering into a local Penn State branch to help them foster greater academic language proficiency.

Two interesting things to note about the Chinese language:

1) There is no gender.  Distinctions between he versus she do not exist.

2) Counterfactual statements don’t exist.

For example, If Darren from Problogger were to shut down his blog, there would be a lot of angry people.” This is counterfactual, because it isn’t true.  (The part about him shutting down his blog–not that the people would be angry, because they definitely would.)  We’re hypothesizing.

But the Chinese don’t have this construction.  They’d likely write this as Darren from Problogger didn’t shut down his blog; if he did, people were mad.” So what happens is that the Chinese have no way to express something that counters reality, and that is known to be false, simply for the purpose of drawing implications.

Because of this, researchers have posited that Indo-European speakers (us and everyone else with the ability to form counterfactuals) are more inclined to perform theoretical thinking, whereas the lack of it in Chinese induces a general disinclination for them doing so, which can be observed in their traditionally more practical, reality-centered approaches to scientific, social and moral questions.  (Blame Alfred Bloom; he said it, not me!)

So, that’s equally wild, eh?

So, I Discovered This Thing . . .

Now for my favorite part of this little discussion:

Do you know that we’ve now invented another language, similar to English, called “E-Prime?”

To my great disappointment, “e” does not stand for “electronic,” as one might be inclined to assume.  Rather, E-Prime is short for “English Prime,” and it’s a modified version of the English language which basically just kicked out any and all forms of the verb, “to be,” suggesting that the use of E-Prime leads to a less dogmatic style of language.

Essentially, the language doesn’t make any absolute assertions.  My homie Wikipedia states that E-Prime is also used as a mental discipline activity to filter speech and translate the speech of others.

For example, the sentence “Miller Lite is good,” translated into E-Prime, would read, “I like Miller Lite,” and communicates the subjective experience rather than judgment.  This makes it a whole hell of a lot harder to confuse opinion with fact.  (Are you stroking your chin with wonder and curiosity yet?)

Furthermore, passive voice is eliminated.   Example:  “The beer was spilt.” For all of you non-English language obsessed cool cats, that’s a passive statement that pretty much takes the blame off of any one person, as if it sort of just happened.  (The verb “to be” is hiding in the “was.”)

However, in E-Prime, the person who actually spilled the beer would have to suck it up and take the blame.  So, in opposition, this is an active statement: “Karol from Ridiculously Extraordinary spilled the beer.“  (I knew I shouldn’t have entrusted him with it, him gallivanting all over the world and such.)

If this thought hasn’t crossed your mind yet, imagine how useful to the American public E-Prime would be in politics.

There’d be no more, “A decision was made.”   No, no, no.   Someone over in that big, giant, white, massive house would have to own up to that decision.  Is it reasonable to assume that this is one reason why English has become the international language of business?  Just sayin’.

Spine-Tingling Implications (And The Jet)

If you’ve made it to this point, I’m proud.  I know that English talk can get daunting, but it raises an interesting point: Does independent thinking actually exist, and to what degree?

If you can only think through a language, then doesn’t that language automatically moderate that thought process? And if that’s the case, then many of our thoughts could be out of our control.

But time out: What about the learning of second, third, fourth languages?  What happens then?   That interdependence of thought and language gets shaken up a bit, and perhaps allows us the possibility of a whole new system of conceptualization.  New conceptualization = new perspectives = new thought processes = new ideas = new, more enhanced you.

That’s kind of magical, actually . . . dangling additional systems of conceptualization over peoples’ heads.

Is the learning of a second language a plausible first step toward the eradication of narrow-minded, closed thinking?   Do I need to call Obama and see if we can make this a law?

Because, frankly, I wouldn’t mind seeing a little less dogmatism, and a little more tolerance, or better–dare I say–acceptance?  And then maybe for offering up such an exquisite idea, supported with the oh-so-official examples I cited here, he would consider lending me his private jet sometime.  And then you know it’s going down, if I’m driving Obama’s jet.

Because you know in a heartbeat I’d be all like, “Yeah, so…Barack.  I dunno, really.  A decision was made and, the plane?  Well, it was crashed, buddy.”

Thoughts on this topic?

If you liked that jazz. . .check out some of these:

  • http://www.spacify.com/fabric_sofas-691-411.html contemporary Fabric Sofas

    You can easily spend an amusing two or three minutes regarding “Gatto di Pasach,” one of Ferretti’s trademark crazy-quilt, crowded interior landscapes — in this case a living room crammed with sofa, cat, TV, and tons of splendid kitsch. … 

  • Simon

    Thank you for this article!

  • http://www.spacify.com Modern Furniture

    “We achieved this by using a white leather Milos sofa
    and Zarra dining chairs. … BoConcept is the brand name of
    Denmark’s most global retail furniture …

  • http://www.tophatmoney.co.uk payday loan payday loan

    However, he stressed that the practice of payday lending, in which workers request an advance on their

  • http://www.tophatmoney.co.uk/ payday loan
  • http://www.theartofaudacity.com Lachlan Cotter

    Exactly right. But it’s not only the grammar that creates that tunnel vision. It’s all manner of idioms and metaphors that emerge in the culture over time. Language reflects a society’s [ancient] relationship with nature; the male-female dynamic; familial structures etc. Culture is a collection of shared stories. Language tends to shoe horn our thinking, but there are modes of though and perception that transcend it: visual, spacial, kinesthetic, intuitive, musical, emotional. Einstein, for instance, attributed his insights to learning to think in such non-linguistic modes.

    Can you have indefinite pronouns in e-prime? Some people might think that’s a loophole :)

    • Brian W.

      Two points for this guy. 

      Will definitely be checking out your blog.

  • http://www.mr-klinikkenskoerping.dk/00089/ MR imaging

    Students at Roxbury’s Eisenhower Middle School, (clockwise from left) Katherine O’Neill, Kyra Ammon, Alex Rosonem, Jasmine Johnson, Samantha King and John Mogavero discuss what they can do as a joint project as part of a mentoring program. …

  • http://www.fertibella.com/get-pregnant/fertility-drugs Fertility Drugs

    You would think that knowing the megahospital project has been coming for years, they would have done some infrastructure work in advance and actually planned temporary roads and ways for people to get around while the hospital construction took place, …

  • Carol

    I totally GET THIS…but I wish I had gotten it a year ago but it is never too late to learn something…especially about language!

  • http://www.fertibella.com/get-pregnant/how-to-get-pregnant-fast.php How to Get Pregnant Fast

    Instead, once again, the city of Montreal and Transport Quebec have given us all the middle finger and told us to “find another way. …

  • http://twitter.com/jeffreyfriend jeffreyfriend

    Wow, thank you for this amazing post! You obviously put a lot of time into it, but I can tell that it’s actually really interesting to you :-) I was learning Mandarin for a while, and took 11 years of Spanish (but still not fluent!), and I felt these same things. Learning a new language doesn’t just open up new doors of communication, but it opens new worlds altogether. Culture is deeply rooted in language, and I feel that if one can seek to understand the culture – learning that language would be so much easier. This thought came to me while I was living in Fiji for 2 months. I stayed with Fijians the entire time. I learned their culture at a deep level, and by the time I left I could get by in a conversation in Fijian. What surprised me is that even after taking YEARS of Spanish, I was able to speak Fijian at nearly the same level after only 2 months. What are your thoughts?

    • Anonymous

      Oh my gosh, immersion is, by far, the single-handed most important thing anyone can do who is seeking to learn a foreign language.  Language, out of context, is extremely limited, and our ability to use it will be, as well.  In context, however (immersion in a culture), you subconsciously learn the nuances of a language, and it’s in the nuances where all of the meaning truly lies. 

      Definitely am interested in this topic–went as far as to get a master’s degree in it.  :)

  • BD

    I’ve always been interested in linguistic anthropology, the study of how language affects culture/people.  (Although I learned that term described what it did only recently, if that makes sense…) Thanks for the awesome post!

    • Anonymous

      Excellent, right?  The possibilities…

  • Dominick

    The beer spilled itself.  The former sentence illustrates the E-Prime way of avoiding taking the blame in a language with only active sentences.

    Obama only speaks one language.  It would interest me to see if he would pass a law that would also force him to learn another language.

  • Pingback: How I’m teaching my 3 year old a second language | Fluent in 3 months

  • Pingback: How I´m teaching my 3-year old a second language

  • anthisme

    I hate you, you give me insomnia with your thought provoking posts :S
    haha I don't really hate you, keep up the good work.
    Anth

  • Cyndee

    Wow! Love it! I'm in Italy living with my Husband and 6 year old Son for 2 years. Since we are learning another language we're on the right track, huh?!  If we all would learn to talk more straight forward and own up, it would make communicating easier I agree (that's how I took it anyway).
    Thanks!

    • TMFproject

      That's fantastic!  Good for you.  I've been meaning to get to Italy.  Soon!

  • http://austinyoder.com/ Austin Yoder

    Ashley,

    Love the post, but am not sure what you mean when you say that distinctions don't exist between he and she in the chinese language. 他 “ta” is the character for “he” which refers to males, and 她 “ta” is the character for “she” which refers to females. The radical on the left hand side of each character is different, and there are a whole host of characters that have to do with gender in the language like 姦 – which is three characters for female stacked on top of each other, and means “wicked.” (Some of the characters with negative connotations that have female radicals get lots of laughs in beginner Chinese classes.)

    E Prime seems like a very interesting concept. Or should I say: Austin thinks E Prime seems like an interesting concept? haha.

    Would love to see pics of you on Obama's jet any day :D

  • Kay

    Man, I know I'm hitting this late, but so many thoughts on this.  I think I'm going to just focus on this comment here for now because I was considering possibilities in languages until I read this comment with the idea that perhaps tonal languages would never be for me.  Why? I'm hearing impaired.  Still worth a try.

    Anyone have any thoughts on sign language? Sign language, even in English-speaking worlds, has taken on their own meanings with words.  There is a whole culture unto sign language.  Sign language, I suppose, is very visual and very contextual.  I grew up with the ESL, which is straight English in which you sign/mime/gesture/act out pretty much every word in decent English structure.  Here's an example: I'm going to get a drink.  However, ASL is a totally different structure that I have a hard time with because there is no grammar in that!  Using that same example, it goes kind of like this: Drink, me get.

    Spoken English is still my very first language.  ESL is definitely a second “language” for me.  I wonder how much perspective will be gained in learning foreign sign language as a bonus to learning to speak foreign language.

  • http://twitter.com/Alentijns Kristof Alentijns

    Killer post! Took me long enough to get through, but definitely worth the brain anguish. I love these types of articles. I've definitely noticed that my humor is somewhat different in english than in dutch. And yeah, that's totally the same as writing an in depth semi psychological article about, I know :) .

  • David Gowers

    Awesome summary of the S-W hypothesis. It's great to know that about Chinese… I wonder if that has any bearing on the way I just, find Chinese people quite unusually friendly, or not.

    While reading your article, I was constantly thinking of Lojban, which is designed explicitly to address the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis; to be culturally neutral and allow a ridiculously vast array of ideas to be expressed in virtually any combination or style.
    As an active learner of Lojban, I believe that it has succeeded in that, based on my own and others' evidence: I find it makes recognizing my own and others' limited thought patterns, and thinking in a different way, much easier. In Lojban the problem is always primarily deciding what you mean… once that is established, writing or speaking in a particular style is pretty simple. This *REALLY* helps thinking.. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org) has been described as 'remorselessly precise' probably because of this.  Maybe you would be interested in it?

  • http://www.lifewithoutpants.com Matt Cheuvront

    Don't know if you've seen Total Recall (big Schwartz fan here) but there's a beautiful line that sums up exactly how I felt after reading this brilliant post. Congratulations Ash, “This was the best mind fuck yet!”

    In all seriousness, a comment back to this won't do it justice, but you've really inspired me to do some thinking – and on a much broader scale, we need more “analytical” – well thought out and “researched” posts like this. It's something I've been meaning to do much more of with my own writing. So again, thank you for the continued inspiration.

    • TMFproject

      Never saw Total Recall, but I'm down with the quote! 

      I think a lot of my views on life have been based on the many things that I've read, studied and digested over the years, and in starting The Middle Finger Project, my goal was to help people gain new perspectives and think critically about the life they're living.  So with that in mind, it only makes sense to include some more “academic” type ideas in here, because they've definitely had a great impact on my own mind set.  As always, thanks for the kind words, Matt!

    • TMFproject

      Never saw Total Recall, but I'm down with the quote! 

      I think a lot of my views on life have been based on the many things that I've read, studied and digested over the years, and in starting The Middle Finger Project, my goal was to help people gain new perspectives and think critically about the life they're living.  So with that in mind, it only makes sense to include some more “academic” type ideas in here, because they've definitely had a great impact on my own mind set.  As always, thanks for the kind words, Matt!

  • Brian W.

    Quien aprende una nueva lengua gana una nueva alma.  – Juan Ramón Jiménez

    Thanks for the bit about e-prime!  In college, my tech writing prof drove me up a wall by making big grade deductions for any use of “to be” or the passive voice, and I never knew there was a name that wrapped all that up so nicely.

    • TMFproject

      Quite possibly the BEST quote ever!!! 

      I keep hearing of college professors requiring this; I never had any that did so, but man that must've been frustrating as a college student.  Haha.

  • http://www.BonesRodriguez.com BonesRodriguez

    Me likey. I speak English and Spanish, and I've noticed how I think differently depending on which i'm spaking in, or thinking in. I actually experience spanish as a more “fun” language and reality; I was just telling someone that recently, and yes, I feel like I am more able to relate to more people because of that.
    If you think about it, every group has it's own language (Star Trek fans, religious crazies, air-traffic controllers), and the more of those languages you know, the more people you can relate to- therefore, it should be true in the real language world too.
    Thanks for writing!

    • TMFproject

      Salud to that!  I noticed the same thing about Spanish.  I studied it as an undergrad and then spent a couple of years living in Central America…it is more fun to speak!  It's certainly more passionate.  Just the default way that things are expressed is more passionate.  But you make an excellent point–by learning other languages, we open ourselves to an entire world of ideas, people, and connections.  And in my book, that alone is well worth the effort.  Thanks for taking the time to drop a line!

    • TMFproject

      PS Totally diggin the Captain Kirk book.  ;) Guilty of stalking?  YES!  :)

      • http://www.BonesRodriguez.com BonesRodriguez

        Well thanks! Captain Kirk's Guide To Women is Guaranteed to put your love life on WARP DRIVE! I totally appreciate stalkers- most of them have great taste!!!

  • mskarenau

    EESH.

    I had a humungo comment typed out (I was like, the 4th person!) but somehow it didn't get registered. I'M ANGRY!

    So summarize:

    - THANK YOU FOR WRITING THIS POST. I took cultural psychology as one of my courses for my psych degree, and we talked a lot about how languages are completely and inextricably intertwined with culture. Not enough people speak another language, and so not enough people truly understand this concept.

    - I have a different sense of humour when I speak Cantonese. True story.

    - No-brainer to anyone in marketing, psychology, education, etc.. Language has the power to influence our thoughts. Example: draw two circles with a little line connecting them like so o-o <– Is that a dumbbell, or a pair of glasses? The label we prescribe can alter our perception of that little drawing! And this is just one example ^_^

    Cheers. Hope this goes through this time!

    • TMFproject

      Hey Karen!  I'm so glad that others can relate to what I'm saying!  When you mentioned that you had a different sense of humor when speaking Cantonese, I thought of something: Since Cantonese is a tonal language, and the entire meaning of the word depends on the tone of your voice, then it's impossible to use vocal inflections to convey humor, emotion, meaning, etc. like we do in English.  I've always thought that I'd have the hardest time learning a tonal language, because if you were to talk to me in person, you'd probably jump out of your seat.  I'm ridiculously excitable, and use a ton of expression in my voice.  But if I weren't able to do that in Cantonese, for example, I almost feel like my entire personality would be hidden.  How can you express excitement, for example, in a language like that???  Thoughts?

      • mskarenau

        Oh I'm quite excitable myself, and I use intonation all the time to express excitement or passionate emotions. You just exaggerate the tones/vocal inflections and stress certain words in the right places of your phrases. Also, if my tone is altered slightly, people can still derive meaning through context.

        The Chinese can also get very loud. Volume is another key ingredient to expression, just like in any other language.

        One other thing to keep in mind, which I'm sure you're well aware of: expression can be conveyed through facial expression and body language as well. So though Chinese is a tonal language, you can stress and exaggerate different tones while making use of context to communicate meaning; change the volume of your voice; and use the rest of your body to express emotion.

        • TMFproject

          Ha, well then I would certainly be the biggest loud mouth in China that there ever was!  You make a good point about non-verbal language.  I did study once about China being considered a high-context culture, where meaning was highly dependent upon non-verbal language (is it true that many women say yes when they mean no, and the only way to tell the difference is by gauging her nonverbals???), and the U.S. is considered a low-context culture, because we pretty much just say what we mean and are very direct.

          • mskarenau

            Eeks, I feel like I missed out on your comment here. I'll reply now.

            Hmm.. I'm going to be careful here about making a broad general statement about how manipulative women can be in China, because I witness it all the time here in North America too. Women saying, “It's FINE” when it's actually NOT “fine”, or “do what you like” when you CLEARLY know that she doesn't want you to make “THAT choice”. You know what I mean? It's the pretense of freedom, yet at the same time manipulating the guilty conscience to her own gain. Perhaps this happens more in China, because it IS less acceptable for women to speak their minds in China. Sexism is more rampant there than in North America.

            Anyway, what I'm getting at is, I guess this kind of thing happens everywhere, but probably more so in China.

  • http://twitter.com/Mneiae Caroline L

    In Chinese, there is a difference between he and she. Even though they are pronounced the same, the character ta is different for each gender.

    I was exposed to this theory a few months ago and we discussed it in my seminar class about literature. My professor is Mexican with a PhD in romance languages, so a) almost all of our texts were international (Huck Finn was the exception) and b) he has a fantastic perspective on all of this. The first book that we read was Don Quixote in entirety. What other professor would ever have us read all of Cervantes' work? He tried to expose us to old Spain and the beginning of modern literature. Fantastic guy.

    I definitely agree that language colors how we express things. Almost everybody in my family speaks at least three languages: English, Vietnamese, and French. The older generation's native language is Vietnamese, but the younger generation's native language is based on where they grew up, the US or France. There are language barriers between my cousins and I, despite our relative fluency in both languages. There's a disconnect between our ideas. Some of it is influenced by actual location, but I wonder how much is influenced by the language itself…

    • TMFproject

      Wow!  What an awesome source to pull from–having three languages in the family.  That's fascinating. 

      Slowly but surely, I'm getting input from lots of you talking about the deal with the Chinese personal pronouns.  (Thanks for that!) I can imagine that on some level, having the same pronunciation for both “he” and “she,” even though there is a written distinction, still communicates, on some level, a subconscious equality of gender.  For example, China is considered to have a collective culture, in which the individual self is not emphasized, but rather harmony is promoted.  (A striking contrast to our culture here, eh?!) Using the same pronunciation for both “he” and “she” totally reflects that, although I'm absolutely just making random connections off the top of my head, and definitely don't claim to be a psycholinguist!  Would love to hear about the disconnect you experience when speaking to some of your relatives.  Thanks so much for sharing.

      • http://twitter.com/Mneiae Caroline L

        From an Asian-American perspective, there's also a disconnect between who I think I should be and who my parents think I should be. The individual self is not emphasized in my parents' world and a lady never draws attention to herself. On the other hand, I'm an American, which means that I have to have individually awesome accomplishments and gain recognition. There's a tiny bit of a conflict in my upbringing.

        What price would you pay for harmony and getting along? Would you subjugate yourself to your elders, especially the men, to make order of chaos?

        • TMFproject

          This is a fascinating topic to me, and one that is super relevant to my master's degree.  There are many students who began their schooling in their native country, and then finished in the states–these are called Generation 1.5 learners.  Gen 1.5 learners often have unique difficulties in that they've mostly developed their interpersonal communication skills and can talk to anyone on the street, for example, but are severely lacking in their academic language proficiency, because they likely didn't attain an academic language proficiency in their first language to begin with.  These were the types of students that I worked with, and the majority were from China.  These are also the types of students that often cited a similar issue that you describe–being more Americanized than their parents, and experiencing a real disconnect, and not having any idea what to do about it.  I've also read about this in many other contexts–for example, the Middle Eastern parent who has immigrated to the U.S., but doesn't want to allow their child to dress like an American.  The pressure on that child is immense!  Especially at a developmental age.

          • http://twitter.com/Mneiae Caroline L

            I've never heard of that before. Thanks for teaching me something new! I've definitely seen that. I'm in the process of becoming a writing tutor for my university and one category of people who use us often is those who don't speak “academic” very well. They can get by and talk about their day, but when it comes to papers, it's a lot more difficult.

  • DLR

    I was surprised to find the bit about E-Prime. My English professor requires us to write our papers in E-Prime for better and more clear writing (though I don't think he's aware of it being called E-Prime. According to him, it just sounds better), so I was pleasantly surprised to learn that method of speaking/writing is a defined and classified “language”.

    Very interesting article :)

    • TMFproject

      Absolutely! I can recall college professors saying the same thing–that the language is more clear.  Actually, this was especially relevant when I was doing my undergraduate work in spanish, because according to my professor at the time, the passive voice was far less natural to use in Spanish than even in English.  That speaks again to a reason why English is conducive to business! 

      Thanks so much for your comment!!

  • http://www.google.com/profiles/julian.sammy Julian

    Great ideas here, and written in a fun, engaging style (first time reader – found you through Buzz). If you haven't already, you should watch Steven Pinker's TED talks on language and behaviour. http://bit.ly/bBx7J5 is a good start. He has another talk — I can't find the video link — where he talks about a theory of physics embedded in our language. Fascinating.

    • TMFproject

      Hey Julian!  Thanks for the kind words.  You know, I don't think I've seen the video you're citing here, but am definitely going to check it out.  Steven Pinker rocks.  I have a book by him called “The Language Instinct.”  Thanks for the resources!

  • http://mynastyromance.coffeespy.com/ Neospooky

    Very interesting article, entertainingly written, well-formed opinions.  I enjoyed every bit of it like a bean with bacon soup… but like bean with bacon soup, I found that single piece of icky fat in the form of “let's force everyone to learn a second language by law in order to promote free thought.” 

    You stated “Do I need to call Obama and see if we can make this a law?  Because, frankly, I wouldn’t mind seeing a little less dogmatism, and a little more tolerance, or better–dare I say–acceptance?” Follow me on this one – Dogma is a doctrinally held belief of an organization.  If you have the US (an organization) make a law (dogmatic legislation) even in an attempt to promote tolerance, you've forced your own dogma on someone else AND reduced acceptance of single-language speakers.

    How about we extoll the virtues, debate the pros and cons, and leave the legislature out of my brainpan.  You've done a good enough job convincing me to learn a fourth language (conversational Spanish and bar-room German speaker here).  I agree with the argument, believe in the principles, but don't trust people when it comes to forcing me to do something.

    • TMFproject

      Hi there!  You present a totally sound argument, but for the record, I was totally being facetious in my Obama remark.  It's probably hard to tell that from just reading this blog post, but I hope that readers who normally follow have gotten to know my personality and know that my writing is full of sarcasm and attempted humor.  On that note, please know I never meant to come off as if I were forcing anyone to do anything.  Simply making an argument for expanding our minds, that's all!  Cheers!

  • simpleinfrance

    Wellll, I just found your blog and love this post!  I love languages too–and have taught 2 of them–both the foreign language route and the ESL route.  I also taught French to Chinese kids so, your explanation of the lack of the counter-factual statements caused a small 'click' to go on in my mind.  Had I known more about Chinese.  I would have had an easier time with conditional, subjunctive and all that other stuff that made my poor students nuts! 

    As for the E-prime, I *try* to write that way but find that my brain doesn't work as efficiently in that mode–like speaking another language.  But I love the political implications of people say, learning to speak that way. . .

    As for learning more languages and learning to think in new ways—it's an interesting idea to think over.  I speak 2 fluently, 1 conversationally and used to be decent in an Indonesian dialect that had some interesting concepts–ie, just three verb tenses.  Either you did it, are doing it or are going to do it.  So people really don't get it when you say you'll stop by and don't. . . I would have come by but got waylaid is not an acceptable (or possible) explanation.

    • TMFproject

      I can only imagine trying to teach the conditional to students who didn't have it in their first language!  It's almost like stories I hear from other ESL instructors who have had to teach refugees how to even write and form characters, or what reading even is, because they weren't literate in their first language.  Can you imagine? 

      The Indonesian dialect you mention interests me greatly, having only three tenses.  The implications of that are vast, in conjunction with this theory!  How can you conceptualize ideas (such as “I would have come by, but couldn't) if you don't have the language for it?  What other implications might that have?  Wild to think about. 

      Thanks so much for sharing that!  If you have any other thoughts on the topic, I certainly welcome them.  :)

      • simpleinfrance

        Ok, this is kind of anal, but I realized that I'd typed Indonesian instead of Polynesian.  At first I thought, ah well, no biggie, but then it bothered me all night.  The language is Malagasy, many dialects of which are spoken in Madagascar.  The thing that really rocks about this language verb-wise is that present tense verbs always start with an 'm', future tense with an 'h' and past with an 'n.' That's it.  No conjugations, no nothing.  I *believe* at least that much is common to other Polynesian languages as well. 

        Although I liked the verbs because of their simplicity, I found the relationship and possession function of the language impossible to wrap my brain around–nouns change their endings depending on who owns them if I remember correctly–but it has been years and , like I said, I didn't quite get it.  But what people tried to explain to me was that the possessive could be used to show kinship–which is majorly important in Madagascar, a society where the ancestors are sacred and where, in the south, some groups will actually 'un-burry' the dead on a yearly basis, re-wrap the bodies etc.

        • TMFproject

          Interesting!!!!!!!!!! 

          The first thing that pops into my mind, in relation to the context of this post, is that I might argue that having a noun change its ending depending on who owns them implies an emphasis on personal ownership–I'm surprised that we don't have that in English as a function of our crazy individualism! 

          You really sparked my interest in learning more and more nontraditional languages–I'll definitely be checking this one out in particular.  Thanks again for all of your awesome input!

  • TMFproject

    Interesting analogy, Bradley – the thing with humans is that we think through our language; therefore, thoughts are undeniably moderated by our language–which, by the way, is an entirely arbitrary system that lacks no inherent meaning.  Many researchers talk about this in relation to spatial orientation, although I haven't got a specific example off the top of my head.  Interesting stuff, eh?  There's also a counter argument against it, but that's a whole other post.  ;)

  • TMFproject

    As always, thank you for all of your support, Steven!  I thought this was a pretty cool topic to write about/talk about, too.  :)

  • http://javachipmocha.tumblr.com javachipmocha

    Hi Ashley, this piece totally motivates me to step up my mastery of my third language. Thanks :)

    One thing I'm a little confused about your comment on the Chinese language though. Chinese is my second language and I've spent nearly my whole life learning it. While in speaking there seems to be no gender, I'm not sure if you've come across characters such as 他, 她, and 它. They are different words for he, she, and it just that they sound the same when spoken. So while the language has significantly less gender compared to French, German or even English, gender does exist in the language. :)

  • http://twitter.com/mike_key Michael Key

    Ashely what a great article, do you know what you made me think about when you spoke about thought process and our language?

    The book 1984 by George Orwell, I'm sure you heard of it, but in the book the government was creating a new language to continually dumb down the public called Newspeak. And alot of it was based on the idea of political correctness, something we have a lot of today in the States and in most Western Countries.

    It's a well known scientific fact that when your vocabulary increases so does your IQ. We often wonder how the ancients achieved such great things like the pyramids or the , but any scholar will tell you that the ancient languages were far more complex and descriptive than our standard English. And just like the book, I think people get dumber when their vocabulary decreases. Someone who is very outspoken about this subject is Bill Cosby who has some pretty interesting opinions on what rap music and slang is doing the black community. And I'm inclined to agree with him.

    I meet so many young people who can barely speak normal now a days or form complete sentences. It's frankly disturbing and it really makes me think about social controls and the book.

    I wish I could recall the details but Zig Ziglar mentioned a guy in one of his talks about motivation who was a NY cabby with a highschool education that bought a dictionary one day and started reading it. A couple years later the guy was a multimillionaire and began traveling telling people about how expanded his mind.

    Language is very important, and so is education. And I'm not talking about that fake bullshit education they call a public school system. It's a joke, but if you look at the founding fathers and especially Franklin who setup the first library you realize how much they understood that to secure America and the individual RIGHTS, aka your INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS and to never let them be taken away from you, you had to be educated!

    If you read Ben Franklin's autobiography you'll get the picture that people where reading the heck out of books at the time leading up to the American Revolution. People weren't as stupid as history books try to paint them.

    Ok, I'll stop ranting.

  • http://twitter.com/marquis42 Bradley Watkins

    Language bias in one's thinking with respect to human languages is an interesting idea that I admit I hadn't considered before.  In my own profession, computer science, it's well known (at least qualitatively; I can't cite any sources of adequate scientific rigor to imply otherwise) that one's experience with different programming languages very directly influences how software is designed and written.

    Though human languages are capable of expressive complexity orders of magnitude greater than computer languages, I suppose it stands to reason that these same kinds of effects would be observed in that realm as well.  Perhaps as a direct result of that complexity one might reasonably imagine that the effect on behaviors and thinking would be even more pronounced.

    As usual, great post, and thanks for making me think of things in new ways.

  • http://javachipmocha.tumblr.com javachipmocha

    Hi Ashley, this piece totally motivates me to step up my mastery of my third language. Thanks :)

    One thing I'm a little confused about your comment on the Chinese language though. Chinese is my second language and I've spent nearly my whole life learning it. While in speaking there seems to be no gender, I'm not sure if you've come across characters such as 他, 她, and 它. They are different words for he, she, and it just that they sound the same when spoken. So while the language has significantly less gender compared to French, German or even English, gender does exist in the language. :)

    • TMFproject

      Hi, there!  So glad you stopped to comment. 

      I don't know Chinese, so it's hard for me to know for sure, but I do know that the Chinese students I had were constantly mixing up he and she in English, or omitting them altogether, and explained that in their language, they didn't need to specify.  But because I was super curious from your comment, I did a little research and found this:

      “It should be noted that the character for “she”, containing the “woman” radical (glyphic element of a character's composition), was invented in the late nineteenth or early twentieth century due to western influence; prior to this, the character indicating “he” today was used for both genders — it contains the “person” radical, which, as noted above, is not gender-specific (likewise there exists a written feminine form for “you”, 妳, which is almost never used).”

      Key phrase: Due to western influence. 

      Interesting, indeed!!!

      Other thoughts???  (Thanks again for stopping to comment!)

      • http://javachipmocha.tumblr.com javachipmocha

        I guess the main reason why I'm able to differentiate between the genders in Chinese is because I am predominantly an English thinker – which totally supports your post, because I think first in English then I translate into Chinese. Not a very good way of learning considering that Chinese has a totally different grammar and sentence structure.

        Your post made everything click when I think about my struggles with language mastery. It was only after learning German that I realised why I am relatively terrible at Chinese. Vice versa, my friends who prefer to converse in Chinese typically do not have a good command of English. (Kudos to the bilingualism education policy in my country, everybody has to learn two languages since young.) I realised that perhaps why we are unable to completely master the second language, be it English or Mandarin, is really due to our inability to switch away from our dominant language of thought.

        And yeah, I am not surprised (and should have known, really) that the “woman” radical was recently developed due to Western influence but I guess what kind of confuses me is that the Chinese students you have today will know these characters and therefore should not have any problems with he, she and it. But that's probably just me and my English way of thinking, again. :

        Guh sorry for the long post. I just got excited about this epiphany and wanted to share my experience with you as thanks. :)

        • TMFproject

          This is all so interesting!  Thanks for all of your great input.  I'm totally going to have to scan in some of their old papers that they wrote for me, and you'll see their clear omission of the personal pronouns.  Or, if they do use them, they consistently write “he” and forget that there's a difference between “he” and “she.”  Tough call for me to make since I've never studied the language, but I definitely am glad you stopped to discuss this!

      • mskarenau

        The feminine “you” in Chinese is not as often used as the masculine, or gender neutral “you”. I saw it popping up here and there, but the masculine/gender neutral “you” is most widely acceptable. No one really cares much about differentiating the two when writing, unless they wanted to be uber specific. There's no difference in pronunciation, anyway.

        Speaking of differences in language Ambrige, I was looking at what you said about the Chinese not using counterfactuals. I'm fluent in Chinese, and I use counterfactuals all the time, both in English and in Chinese! My parents, who grew up in Hong Kong, use them as well. All the time.

        Here are my thoughts though: I was raised in Canada, largely a Westernized society. So I could have easily been influenced by this one fact. My parents, likewise, grew up in Hong Kong, which was controlled by the British until 1997 anyway. So Hong Kong is much more Westernized than the rest of mainland China. Perhaps not using counterfactuals is only limited to those who are not as influenced by Western thought.

        Thoughts??

        • TMFproject

          YES that must be why they would always use “he” instead of “she,” if they remembered to use one at all. 

          Love your input on this, by the way. 

          So me being me, performed a little google search.  Check out this info.  I think this probably clears a lot up:

          “Bloom (1981) argued that English has a salient counterfactual marker–the subjunctive to express hypothetical and implicational meanings whereas Chinese has no distinct lexical, grammatical or intonational device to signal entry into the counterfactual realm. He suggested that the lack of a linguistic means to mark counterfactuality in Chinese influences the cognitive behavior of speakers of Chinese: they are less likely to reason counterfactually. To test his hypothesis, he presented stories featured by counterfactuality to both English and Chinese speakers and compared their responses to counterfactual questions. The overall result of his experiment was that his American English subjects scored significantly higher than Chinese subjects. Bloom interpreted his findings as evidence for the weak form of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis: language influences thought and linguistic differences entail corresponding cognitive differences. This dissertation intends to demonstrate, through a survey of literature and interviewing of native Chinese informants, that although Chinese does not have a syntactic means equivalent to the subjunctive in English to mark counterfactuality, it does have lexical devices to express hypothetical and implicational meanings. In addition, there are contextualization cues such as stress, pitch and intonation that make counterfactuality explicit.”

        • http://javachipmocha.tumblr.com/ javachipmocha

          Perhaps not using counterfactuals is only limited to those who are not as influenced by Western thought.

          This I completely agree. I was testing out the writer's example statements and I didn't have any problem creating a counterfactual statement in Chinese but I thought that may be because, as I said earlier, I think in English. :)

  • http://twitter.com/mike_key Michael Key

    Ashely what a great article, do you know what you made me think about when you spoke about thought process and our language?

    The book 1984 by George Orwell, I'm sure you heard of it, but in the book the government was creating a new language to continually dumb down the public called Newspeak. And alot of it was based on the idea of political correctness, something we have a lot of today in the States and in most Western Countries.

    It's a well known scientific fact that when your vocabulary increases so does your IQ. We often wonder how the ancients achieved such great things like the pyramids or the , but any scholar will tell you that the ancient languages were far more complex and descriptive than our standard English. And just like the book, I think people get dumber when their vocabulary decreases. Someone who is very outspoken about this subject is Bill Cosby who has some pretty interesting opinions on what rap music and slang is doing the black community. And I'm inclined to agree with him.

    I meet so many young people who can barely speak normal now a days or form complete sentences. It's frankly disturbing and it really makes me think about social controls and the book.

    I wish I could recall the details but Zig Ziglar mentioned a guy in one of his talks about motivation who was a NY cabby with a highschool education that bought a dictionary one day and started reading it. A couple years later the guy was a multimillionaire and began traveling telling people about how expanded his mind.

    Language is very important, and so is education. And I'm not talking about that fake bullshit education they call a public school system. It's a joke, but if you look at the founding fathers and especially Franklin who setup the first library you realize how much they understood that to secure America and the individual RIGHTS, aka your INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS and to never let them be taken away from you, you had to be educated!

    If you read Ben Franklin's autobiography you'll get the picture that people where reading the heck out of books at the time leading up to the American Revolution. People weren't as stupid as history books try to paint them.

    Ok, I'll stop ranting.

    • TMFproject

      I loved this comment.  Thank you for so much insight!

      YES I definitely know about Newspeak, and think that it really does hold a whole hell of a lot of truth.  I know I alluded to it above, but I have read different things that suggest that the reason why English has become the international language is business is, yes, related to the U.S as a world power, but also because in English, it's really easy to sugarcoat anything and everything, and say what you mean to say, yet be vague all at the same time and slant your words to sound one way or another.  I don't believe this is the case in some other languages, where what it is is simply what it is, and that's the way you have to say it.  No flowery-ness about it.  And obviously business, being business, would prefer the former.  :p

      About books–oh, how I love books.  I do think that as technology has progressed (as much as I adore it), we can see a clear negative correlation between the rise in technology and the decline in knowledge.  Young people nowadays have way too many gadgets, games and techie toys to play with to be bothered to read books.  In the past, children probably read more, if not for any other reason than boredom.  But now, with the go-go-go ness of our society, no one's ever bored.  No need to pick up a book.  You can get all of your info from the internet (so sarcastic.) While the internet is a great resource, as a child, you probably aren't looking up people like George Orwell.  *tear*

      Loved the rant.  THANK YOU.

      • http://www.mikekey.com/ Mike Key

        Ashely, yes I agree about technology. To me the difference is that we have to many forms of instant entertainment and outside influence. The reason it might have taken much longer to change people's opinions and behaviors in the past is because you could live some place where the outside world didn't influence you 24/7. When you where raising your kids you could control the influences, today you have almost no control. You can't drive down the street without a billboard of a half naked woman.

        Books where primarily the only source of influence on one's thinking outside of family and community in days since the 20th century.

        I think the best way to look at it is to see how conservative America was, especially sexually. America had a lot of puritan immigrants. But thanks to TV, Radio, mass media and today the internet, people can be exposed to new ideas faster and whole societal opinions can change, maybe for the best, or maybe for the worse.

        I've often wondered, what if Nazi German had access to TV's and the Internet all over the world back in the 30's?

        It seems like with all this instant access to information we are loosing some of the filters that we need to help us make good decisions.

        I could ramble on and on but I'll spare you. :)

  • http://twitter.com/marquis42 Bradley Watkins

    Language bias in one's thinking with respect to human languages is an interesting idea that I admit I hadn't considered before.  In my own profession, computer science, it's well known (at least qualitatively; I can't cite any sources of adequate scientific rigor to imply otherwise) that one's experience with different programming languages very directly influences how software is designed and written.

    Though human languages are capable of expressive complexity orders of magnitude greater than computer languages, I suppose it stands to reason that these same kinds of effects would be observed in that realm as well.  Perhaps as a direct result of that complexity one might reasonably imagine that the effect on behaviors and thinking would be even more pronounced.

    As usual, great post, and thanks for making me think of things in new ways.

    • TMFproject

      Interesting analogy, Bradley – the thing with humans is that we think through our language; therefore, thoughts are undeniably moderated by our language–which, by the way, is an entirely arbitrary system that lacks no inherent meaning.  Many researchers talk about this in relation to spatial orientation, although I haven't got a specific example off the top of my head.  Interesting stuff, eh?  There's also a counter argument against it, but that's a whole other post.  ;)

  • stevenponec

    Ashley from the Middle Finger Project blew my mind with this writing.  (Am I writing in E-Prime? haha).  Seriously though – this post is amazing.  Your implication of language changing our realities and how we think is really really interesting.  I love it when people bring up things I've never ever ever even thought up before.  Enough of my rambling!  Keep this awesome writing going Ashley.
    Possibly your biggest fan ~ Steven

    • TMFproject

      As always, thank you for all of your support, Steven!  I thought this was a pretty cool topic to write about/talk about, too.  :)

  • katiekasz

    Okay, so, rock on. Because I've been traveling a lot in the last year, I've been thinking of languages and communications. I used to hate languages mostly because, I'll admit it, I was afraid of them. I have no idea why, but I had a fear of linguistics.

    *In middle school I was forced to study Latin–the dead language–the one that took up all my time studying to pronounce and memorize when I should have been outside doing fun kid things like swinging or doing kart-wheels.

    (fast-forward)

    *I studied German in high school, ya' know, when I was a teenager that knew everything about the world/actually couldn't understand the world but that's a different story. I hated being forced to learn a language because it made me think on levels that, as a 17-year-old, I hated. I didn't understand it because I didn't want to understand it. Why bother to learn another language?! The way I had it figured I'd never go anywhere that required skills other than English, and I faced enough confusion in my native language…

    (fast-forward)

    *Nearly a year ago now, I made the decision to dive into South American culture. Hellooo Spanish. I didn't speak a word of it before I got there and in a sink-or-swim situation you better believe I was pretty damn happy and, might I add, really freakin' proud every time I learned a new word or, even better, a grammatical structure. (I secretly did a celebratory dance…)

    (Rewind)

    *Damn I wish I would have paid more attention to languages in high school–GULP!!–maybe even taken several of them. Hell, they say the best time to study language is at a young age. Wish I started when I was about 4 'cause, afterall, this whole communicating with other people in order to understand them is a pretty big deal…

    (fast-forward)

    *Currently, I am in Ireland, rooming&boarding with my friends Tracy and Marco. Tracy is from Ireland, Marco is from Italy. It is my second time spending an extended period of time in Ireland and so when I speak, an Irish twang is in my vocal inflections. We all laugh about it, but I often think about what this means in terms of linguistics. On the outside it just sounds different, but essentially, even within one language there are so many structural and word differences it is almost astounding.

    For Example: trainers=sneakers, trunk (of the car)=boot, take it handy=be careful, and here we say 'have you any sugar' instead of 'do you have sugar.' And tomato–how IS that pronounced? According to my friend here, Americans mispronounce the 'A' and give it a long vowel sound rather than the short. And that said, you should head the conversations we have about the words potato, oregano and basil…

    It may seem minute on the outside, but really, it shows the number of changes even English has taken over time. Or perhaps it is just over the Atlantic…

    When I think about it, I realize how much 'American' English has taken on a form of its own, and how similar (particularly the structures of) English 'across the pond' is to the root of all languages–Latin–and to the romance languages (also derived from Latin…).

    So all of this said, I would have to agree that it is all in the way we say things that matters. I'm certainly going to be doing more research on this E-prime you speak of and see what I can come up with. I'd agree that thinking in a language can open new conceptualizations because I know for me it did, but I'd like to ask you (mostly because I have studied dance for 20 years and it was the first way I learned to communicate), what if we all had to study movement–of our hips rather than our lips–as a second form of communication? Perhaps all our minds would expand and be freed and we could live in a colorful, creative-driven society.

    …When you have your meeting with Mr. Prez, talk to Obama about that and let me know what he says…I'll be waiting…

  • http://www.tumblemoose.com/ George Angus

    Ash,

    I sure wish I had something valuable to contribute here, but I think I am so freakin' out of my league that any words/thoughts would be fibrillating masses of nonsense.  Which means it would be a standard comment from me and I just won't do that to you, love.

    George

    • TMFproject

      Playa PLEASE your comments are always valued.  Even when I decide to go off on academic ramblings…. ;)

  • http://www.solitarypanda.com floreta

    i think i've thought about somethings similar but could not pen it in such an excellent way as you have. mind blowing indeed!

    • TMFproject

      HEART YOU!!!

  • http://earlyretirementextreme.com/ Early Retirement Extreme

    I have previously tried to write in E-prime and it actually makes for very clear writing. Another good trick is not to use qualitative or in particular relative statements but to quantify everything. It is, however, very hard work, particularly to avoid the passive voice.

    • TMFproject

      Incredible!  In what contexts do you use it, if I may ask?  I'm interested in how people are practically applying this to their lives, and for what personal purpose.  Awesome!

  • Pingback: uberVU - social comments

  • http://creativecourage.org/ Ben Weston

    It's funny you mention Chinese because I lived there for 7 months, and was forced to only speak it then, or else I would get sent back to the US (crazy Nazi language immersion program). It is definitely an entirely different way of thinking. And with that language and culture, I morphed into a different personality. When people finally heard me speak English for the first time, they were surprised. Apparently in Chinese I'm a nice momma's boy with good manners but in English have a foul mouth and love to down shots of Vodka.

    Long story short: Chinese is a bitch to learn, languages do morph the way you see the world, and you're a kick-ass writer. If only I had more writing like yours when I was a philosophy major!

    • TMFproject

      I've seen some of those language programs.  :) It sounds like what you experienced in Chinese could have been a gap in your communicative competence–when starting to learn a language, you start out learning the formalities, etc., and it's very difficult to convey humor, sarcasm, etc.  That's probably what your Chinese was missing, which is why you came off as an innocent saint.  :p Also, sometimes in a second language, we're intimidated when talking with native speakers (not saying that you were), so we're naturally a bit more passive than we might normally be. 

      Thank you for the compliments, Ben!!!

  • Tyler Tervooren

    My limited language skills did not allow me the freedom to form an introspective thought on this article.  But I totally dig it.

    • TMFproject

      Ha ha :P

  • LuckyBiker

    I've been fortunate enough to live long-term in Germany and Sweden as well as in various parts of the U.S.  I think learning a second language is valuable, but more so if you actually use it enough to THINK in that language.  For example, when I lived in Sweden, I spent my entire days speaking Swedish – to the point that I actually thought in Swedish.  Then at home I'd speak English (and think in Swenglish.).  I'd say that the experience definitely had a role into making me into the free-thinker that I am today.

    But I don't think language restricts independent thought.  I can think up all kinds of crazy stuff even without the words I need.  I do think a given language can make it very difficult to express a thought, however.  Luckily, in our modern world, we can swipe words from other languages when we need them!

    • TMFproject

      I'm incredibly jealous you lived in Germany & Sweden!  Sweden is big time on my to-go list.  Even though I'll look like a plain jane next to all of those tall, blondies!  :)

      Maybe words do not restrict independent thought, but the ones we have available to us–and in what context we use them–definitely does affect our thought process.  Take the Arapaho Native American language: There is only one word for both father & uncle, when we, as English speakers, divide them up into two words to clarify the difference.  I think that suggests something about the way we respectively grow up viewing familial relationships, for example–even though in both cases, the relationship is objectively the same.  What do you think?  Were there any examples in Swedish like this?  Yay?  Nay?

      • LuckyBiker

        Plain Jane?  Hardly.

        Now, I wonder if it's actually culture impacting the language.  Did the language for father/uncle evolve because of the culture's beliefs, or vice versa?  Were Indo-Europeans more inclined to hypothetical thought and therefore developed the language they needed to communicate that?

        I've tried to think of examples in Swedish, but it's been too long…  I need to make friends with some Swedes and get back into using the language!

        • TMFproject

          I need to make friends with some Swedes, too.  Mostly just so I can feel exotic.  :p

          The more we talk about it, the more it seems that it's possible the words originated in light of cultural beliefs (although we're going waaaaaaaaayyyy back, when language was first developed), but now, the culture is perpetuated through the words that are still in place, and children grow up learning them. 

          Though, in other examples that researchers cite that relate to spatial orientations (having different prepositions, for example, that express different spatial relationships), I imagine they developed not as a function of culture, per say, but as a function of perception.  So now, the opposite is true, since the language is now in place.  Perceptions now get transmitted throught he language that's in place. 

          Maybe?  Possibly?  :)

          • LuckyBiker

            So spatial orientations led to perceptions which led to language which lead to culture which lead to indoctrination which led to modern thought processes?  Shit!  Our way of thinking is ultimately based on the difference between near and far!

            I knew Grover was influential, but never realized how much so…  I need to go sit quietly and consider this for a while.  :D

  • CoachBassett

    This is an absolutely amazing post! The concept that the language you speak somehow limits your thought patterns is something that has passively occurred to me without really knowing it.  To see it spelled out so clearly is great.

    • TMFproject

      Thank you!  I'm glad that others are finding it as interesting as I do.  I'm fascinated!

  • maybebabyro

    As a non-native speaker of English and a translator of other three bad-ass languages like German, I can only say that if you end up driving Obama's private jet I am so flying on that plane! – with my tri-lingual kids when I have them, of course!

    • TMFproject

      I'll bring the bail money.  ;)

  • http://feint.me feint

    I had to read this article three times to fully take in all the points…..you blew my mind

    • TMFproject

      I can't decide if that's a good thing because you were interested enough to re-read three times, or a bad thing because I must not've written it clearly if you had to read it 3 times!  Ha!

      • http://feint.me feint

        good thing

Custom WP Theme created with love by violetminded & Amanda Farough Header by Marta Spendowska &PolishLab